Public sentiment is profoundly divided and largely negative regarding the ongoing conflict, with frustration directed at both the Russian aggression and the perceived inadequacies of Western support for Ukraine. There is a strong desire for peace and admiration for the courage of the Ukrainian defense, yet a prevailing skepticism exists towards political motives and strategies.

Ukrainian Government

Russian Government

Western Governments

At the start - Putin is a ball bag of the highest order
Now - Putin is still a ball bag of the highest order

DavosLostFingers

Then: Fuck putin and fuck his mother. 

Now: fuck putin and fuck his mother.

Allenrw81

Putin's aggression would basically have created WWIII if nukes weren't involved. 

He's one of those people that needs to own *everything*, so he's trying to take ownership of the things he can.

That's as true now as it was at the start.

Still waiting on Trump to swoop in and solve everything in a single day like he said he would over and over.

Safety_Drance

When It began I was frightened for the Ukranians and pissed at Putin. 

Now I admire the Ukranians' bravery and ingenuity. I'm still livid at Putin but also the people who assured Ukranians' safety in the 90's if they gave up their nukes. I'm angry that our current administration keeps waffling on sending Ukraine the arms they need to push out the invaders.

Greatgrandma2023

The west didn’t do enough and they’re abandoning Ukraine.

Trump is a Russian asset.

rando552

Then: Oh fuck Russia’s actually invading and Ukraine might collapse in a week

Now: Russia’s fucked up. Even if Russia takes eastern Ukraine they’ve lost a generation of fighting men and too much equipment

Imperium_Dragon

I was serving my conscription in the Russian Aerospace Forces then, only had 3 months left until home.

Me and the comrades loaded a bunch of planes with bombs about a week before, at that point we all knew it was gonna happen, was just a question of when. I had my bet on Feb 23, because Putin, like a true soviet, like to tie such things to holidays. Well, now we know that I was 1 day off.

I was immediately against it, but at the time was ok with the idea that maybe he'll actually capture Kyiv in 3 days and then at least the killing stops (or slows down), and we'll just chalk it as another problem to fix after Putin is gone, like Crimea.

Then Bucha happened, and I realized just how fucked up of a country I live in. Ever since, I was a strict but mostly silent (for safety reasons) war opposer. I was anti-Putin long before the escalation tho

ShoWel-Real

I was happy when the good people of the world rallied behind Ukraine in its time of existential need. Now I’m pissed at the people (Maga) and countries (India) who have chosen Russia’s side

Kind-Handle3063

Russia invaded. Russia has been wrong since 2014. November change at all. It is the West letting down Ukraine. The West promised they wouldn’t be invaded if they gave up nukes.

Now no country will ever fall for that.

dcidino

First Started: Shit, Ukraine is in deep trouble. They're probably done as a country but the insurgency will be fierce. 


Years 1-2: Holy shit can these Ukrainians fight, they might be able to rout the Russians and reclaim all of their lost territory. 


Years 3+: A stalemate has developed. The Russians lack the force to conquer all of Ukraine, and the Ukrainians lack the force to reclaim their lost territory. A massive change in the status quo will not occur unless it happens in the domestic political sphere, which seems unlikely.

n00chness

I used to believe there was a certainty of the "West" of keeping their promises.  I fully expected the EU and the US to hit Russian's forces in Crimea with enough force to make resistance difficult.  Like sinking the Black Sea Fleet and cratering every military airport close enough to Ukraine.  

  
I was a teenager when someone explained nuclear proliferation to me and I thought it was complete bullshit.  There are no pacts between lions and men.  The world was divided into nuclear powers and vassal states.  Then, as I got older, I fell under the pretentious notion that surely geopolitical realities were more complex than that.  The last three years have been eye opening.  Teenage me had it right.  

  
I want Ukraine to prevail.  The opposite will bring about bad times for all.

SassiesSoiledPanties

Putin is a scumbag which is why he and pedo Trump get along so well. I have piles of dog crap in my back yard that I have more respect for than these two clowns. 

These idiots are pathetic. I will celebrate their respective obituaries. I think the world will too.

Background-Willow-67

Putin is the load his mommy shoulda swallowed.

LastDigitofPie

Never trust another country’s support. This is just another example of this. Sad for Ukraine.

eonyai

First I was shocked and horrified and now I just have absolute disgust towards Russian society.

covidharness

AlarmingDiamond9316

Ukraine/Russia conflict has been going on for a long, long time.

JustNeedAnswers78

In the beginning, "Oh shit Ukraine are going to get steam rolled." Now, "Wow, russia really is incompetent"

roddz

When the war started, someone printed off a bunch of Putin pictures, wrote 'Poo Tin' on them and stuck them on the bins at our local dog park. Some of those are still there so it seems nobody has changed their view about him.

Many of us worried about Ukraine's survival early on, but after Russia failed and it became a stalemate the concerns shifted more towards lives lost and damage done.

xExerionx

I'm still really confused about what Putin is trying to achieve. Everyone seems to have an idea but it's so abstract like creating buffers against NATO, Crimea's access to the sea, more population, etc. But it feels like the actions of an old man losing his grip. Is it even worth the cost from a pure material perspective? 

civilizedmonkey

In 2004, when Putin took over Ukraine (using Quislings) i was appalled.  When the three revolts against Moscow happened, i supported the Orange, Maiden and Dignity revolutions.  I was thrilled when the Kremlin was kicked out of Kyiv [2014].  
        Then Putin took Crimea and President Barack Obama objected.  The sanctions were put on Putin (personally) not just Russia.
    Putin retaliated by fixing elections in UK and USA (2016). When Putin’s orange minion took over, the invasion went into high gear.
      President Joseph Biden put Putin’s orcs on their back foot.  Then 2/24/2022 Putin went all in.  The valiant Ukies stopped his elite forces.
      The EU &amp; USA only gave enough aid to stop the invasion’s success.  The Russians were losing big time.
      Then (with E Musk’s bankroll) tRump got back in power.  Now i fear Putin’s thugs might somehow succeed.

OutrageousGuess403

it's so rare these days to have an issue that's so morally black and white

rslizard

Didn't like Russia before. Super fucking hate them and Hitler 2.0 now. Before the war, I liked the USA. Now I am so fucking pissed at the USA. Taco continuously bending the knee to Putler you know.

SimonArgead

[deleted]

JohnStamosSB

**Beginning**: This aggression will not stand, man. Putin has crossed the line. The good guys will restore order. Slava Ukraini!  
**Now**: Shit. There weren’t any good guys. Looks like this aggression will stand after all.

Kotukunui

Then: Putin should fuck off and leave other countries to do their own things

Now: Putin should fuck off and leave.

Noting if language was a driver for sovereignty there are a good number of areas of the US that would be part of Mexico.

BassesBest

It’s really just Putin jerking himself off and trying to make a name for himself in the history books.

attackedmoose

728am

when it started: it’s bad. but if one nation is much stronger militarily and the violence ends quickly, then it’s the sad reality.

now: cruel meat grinder. all those people died and its not even resolved. are Ukraine supposed to be really bad people, that the Russian military has to kill them? when it finally ends, how long will the bad blood last after that? even more sadness. 

i‘d like to know what the outcome of not invading would’ve been. Hundreds of thousands have been killed for this.

Sensitive-Abalone942

Well these days I say fuck Putin and anyone who supports him, but I felt that way before the invasion too.

It’s an odd era when I also feel that way about the US leadership, which has taken steps that will likely result in more deaths than Putin’s recent actions.

mildpandemic

Russia turned out to be weaker than I thought, Ukraine turned out to be stronger. The West also turned out to be weaker and more indecisive than it seemed.

DasistMamba

I thought Ukraine would fall really quickly.

MatthewHecht

Ok honest opinion:

Right at the start i thought Ukraine would lose very quickly and i was proven wrong by increadibly brave Ukrainian fighters.

After a year or so: I was sure Ukraine can win with enough support and i was willing to eat tax increases or whatever it takes to build tanks/shells/guns here in the west and send them to Ukraine.

Now: I realized that there simply is no political will in the west to help Ukraine win. The support may seem big but its just way way too little. Its a war on a scale that hasnt happend for decades and people dont seem to realize that Ukraine needs supplies not seen in decades. So i think Ukraine will lose now, im sad about it but in my opinion its Europes fault. We could have saved Ukraine but we werent willing to change and do what needed to be done. There may still be time in theory but nothing is happening to this day, at least not on the scale thats needed. 

Today im questioning if its smart to send tens of billions to aid Ukraine when tens of billions wont change the outcome anyway.

derkuhlekurt

Americans aren't what I thought they were. Also, don't fuck with other countries that have less people than you... They fight harder.

Ok-Rock5666

My thoughts in terms of who should win have never changed. My thoughts about who will probably win, and what the outcome will be have ebbed and flowed throughout the conflict.

Ralife55

I was born in the USSR and Ukraine is as much my home country as Russia. And an attack on Ukraine is perceived in about the same way as if West Germany had attacked East Germany.

Soviet_m33

No matter the reason or who’s at fault war causes innocent ppl to suffer 💔 those not responsible shouldn’t pay for leaders’ mistakes ⚔️🙏

Silentmirchi

At the start, I thought we had to help Ukraine.

Now, I think we must get rid of the Muskovite threat, once and for all. Before the whole world is destroyed by their bloodlust.

What happens to Ukraine doesn't affect me just like all the other 100 conflicts around the world. 

I want foreign funding cut and the military cut while fixing problems at home. 

Also, fuck Israel.

Cost_Additional

I dont know why y'all are so caught up on the belief that russia didnt plan for a quick victory over ukraine when its literally public knowledge... In 2021 nobody knew what ukraine was, and putin didnt think anyone would give a damn. Thats not "propaganda" its literally facts... the fact that you guys debate over this stuff is exactly what putin wants, he wants the west to be confused so he can take their country. Theres not much to be confused about, russia thought they could take ukraine and that the president and army wouldnt do jack shit. None of this was part of his plan, and the proof is in the pudding. Its not that complicated.

ImXTextik

I was sorry for the Ukrainians but I thought it'd be over in a matter of 3 or 4 months at best.

Glad to see I was wrong, they have proven they are a tenacious people, willing to fight to protect their country. Probably isn't worth much to them but they have my utmost respect. 

Don't misunderstand the "glad": I'm not happy they are at war, it's a terrible thing but I'm happy to see their efforts to stop the Russians are working and they didn't just get completely steamrolled and occupied. I wouldn't want to live under Russian rule either.

I'm sorry my country and the rest of our partners aren't doing more to help them.

Ingenuine_Effort7567

Not much has changed. Ukraine is in a fight for survival, and I wouldn't begrudge them to develop and use biological weapons in order to break Russia's infantry. War is ugly, and Russia must realize this.

Kukkapen

First: Holy crap, Russia is going to take Ukraine fast.

Then I saw the resilience and bravery of the Ukrainians, and the pitiful response of the West. People think there will be a resolution and some people will rejoice if there is a successful ceasefire with Ukraine sacrificing land. But anyone with brains know that Russia will build up its strength, and attack again for all of Ukraine, and secure the Black Sea. There's another nation called Moldova, with a break away region called Transnistria and I see that country falling. Then let's see what NATO can do when the Baltics and Poland are right there border to border.

It also solidified in my mind, that human beings are just vile as a species and are just 2 legged vermin. The less of us on this planet the better.

No-Anything-7291

I expected China and North Korea to support Russia but was disappointed when India supported Russia too.
Disappointed by how slow NATO and, EU are to support Ukraine unconditionally.

LittleTownie

When it started and I was much less political I was like hands down support Ukraine unequivocally and give them what they need to fight Russia.


But as I got older and much more critical of my country (US) and I learned about the events of the Maidan revolution I've become a lot less passionate about it. I don't support Russia's invasion at all, but I'm pretty opposed to American intervention in the context that it exists.


Given that we practically couped the Ukrainian government in 2014 and actively stoked the tensions in Donbas and Lugansk prior and following, coupled with the aggressive pursuit of expanding NATO via a much more western- subservient government following 2014, it just feels like the expansion of American imperialism to me. And Russia telegraphed that it would do exactly what it has done years in advance of all of this, and NATO encroached anyway. Is Russia's invasion moral? No. Predictable? Yes.


From an international relations studies standpoint Russia drew a clear red line and America/NATO sprinted past it. The real losers here are Ukrainians, who are left with no sovereignty but to pick between two imperialist powers busy having a conniption fit over their respective declines from the global stage.

amerintifada

I thought Putin would be insane to invade because Russia doesn't have the military strength or manpower to obtain a decisive victory in Ukraine on an acceptable time line. Now I know he's insane.

43_Fizzy_Bottom

As someone who had no illusions about the evil nature of russia and its people, I was not very suprised when the war broke out.
But now my hatred against russia and russians has grown 10x. All the war crimes.. its even impossible to track it all. So many lives ruined....

skylarkid

I was afraid Ukraine would fall within days/weeks  and then things would settle down for a while but now im fully committed to helping ukraine in any way possible

their ability to fight and adapt has been extraordinary and im so sick of trump stringing them along and bowing down to putin

Significant_Fill6992

didn't care then don't care now. russia sucks. ukraine sucks. sad for the people dying. simple as.

Nitronical38

Hs1wTJMZbQlZ

Annoyed3600owner

It’s even more painful now, as I lost most of my Russian friends because they support the war and because discussions with them are impossible. They are so completely brainwashed and filled with cognitive biases that they keep on using falsehoods and fallacies.

Vegetable-River-253

Ukrainians are heroes, defending themselves and the rest of Europe from tyranny. Sadly we are not helping them enough.

Complex-Challenge374

At the beginning, I could at least do something and I was helping the arriving refugees.

I’m more and more frustrated that NATO is not going enough. At the very least, NATO needs to help with air defense and airstrikes on the invading orcs.
Some boots on the ground, too. And armour.
Using weapons of mass destruction would be efficient and acceptable.

a_student_of_puzzles

How I feel, in terms of understanding, didn't a change a lot. If anything I feel confirmed as many expectations and predictions go, if certainly not all of them. What did change is my understanding of and coming to terms with as to how much (my) differed, and continue to differ, from that of others esp. in Europe. For instance I was heavily leaning in favor of (really, expected!) collective military intervention, or rather actively supporting Ukraine, for as long as it seemed viable to me. After all, tiny Kosovo was important enough, let alone "North-Atlantic" Afghanistan too far afield. Yet I wouldn't find a single person sharing this, or even coming close to it: a no-fly zone or shooting at drones/missiles from out of Poland isn't quite what I had in mind, in fact I believe that would've been practically useless; again think rather Serbia, at scale. Not necessarily "boots on ground" that is, none were needed there either, or surely not at first, but honest kinetics. Shock and awe, hopeless interference, fireworks from air and sea of a dimension that made Moscow clear there's no route left for "victory", but one for perdition. Bombing them out of Ukraine. Absolutely possible, and viable up to a point (of Russian sacrifice), even if mere signalling or Russian anticipation wouldn't have done (most of) the trick, which it might as well have. Yet either people just didn't care enough (the same who won't give a d\*\*\* about Kabul now), or they're afraid of "nukes" and the latter perhaps came to be the biggest surprise to me. How utterly different you can understand and evaluate or overrate this risk, or indeed what an odd outlier I seem to be. But then I still think it was kind of a pretense, for many at least; when in reality they do understand enough about it, and just didn't feel like getting involved. Unfortunately that is what broke Ukraine's neck. Western surrender. Not Russian "superpower". Not my choice.

Tropical_Amnesia

By "first started", you mean 2014 or 2022?  
Either way, always thought Putin was a beanbag, still is.

yrokun

To begin with I was just annoyed with Putin for causing a shortage with the end result that computer parts went through the roof.

Now I laugh because his country is close to going bankrupt - fuck around, find out.

gulvklud

I thought the war would be over in a week, now i think it will never be over.

Turbulent-Soup7634

From the very first day I thought that Russians did something foolish, wrong, and dangerous. From the very first day I was on the side of Ukraine. I contributed twice to united24, Ukraine's official donation channel. I still think Ukraine is a backward, corrupt eastern country, but that's not the point. We (I am Romanian) may also be considered somewhat corrupt (less than Ukraine) and I would not like to be killed in my sleep by Russian criminals. Ukraine MUST be defended at all costs because it gave up its nukes for promises of security. If they lose everyone will get nukes to feel safe. I still think the same: Russia is a criminal invader who must be kicked out.

Silent-Laugh5679

I used to believe this wasn't my problem and countries should manage their military and diplomatic relationships, especially the ones with neighboring countries. I also used to believe this was the biggest money laundry operation of our times.

Today I'm completely certain about it.

Fuck Russia and their naked war of aggression.

Itsavanlifer

Russia was the aggressor and continues to be. The only thing that has changed is my admiration for Ukraine has grown as they have continued to fight back.

liamstrain

I sincerely don't understand how it's still going on 

Everything at the time was telling me Russia was basically out of resources and troops from the start.  It was supposed to be a quick invasion, it wasn't, then it all slowed down and Russia was supposed to be basically bankrupt after that. Then the US started aiding Ukraine and that just cemented in my mind that this is just a waiting game until Russia has to give up

Years later it's somehow still going on

SourPuss6969

I have been in favor of Ukraine's right to sovereignty since the day Russia started advancing tanks to Ukraine's borders and the world was saying "there's no way that Russia would invade Ukraine".

LLM_Cool_J

Beginning - Ukraine will Win!

Now - Ukraine is cooked as shit.

TellEmSteve

Unchanged: my respect for Ukraine. Since Day 1, they punched above their weight and remained moral. 

Changed: my respect for genocidal Russia and the oft  feckless West. I was raised to naysay the Red Scare and admire detente and Russia's "high culture". Now, I see it takes 2 to tango towards detente. Otherwise it's just appeasement. Appeasement of militaristic tyrants remains disgusting 

DavidlikesPeace

My friends grandparents got paid by American NGO's to participate in the Maidan protests in 2013 to overthrow the then pro-Russian president. 

Stupid Then,

Stupid Now

My attitude towards Zelensky have definitely shifted with all those corruption scandals and forced mobilization that violates local laws and regulations 


Somewhere in 2023, there was an idea that Ukraine might actually stand and take back territories, but now it's quite evident that they have lost and the only thing that is still under a debate is the scale of that lose

NoGuidance8588

EddieYui

Orc invastion must be stopped, nothing has changed in that matter.


No mercy for the invaders

Humble-Progress8295

Disappointed... in Ukraine and the US.

First, Ukraine because all they needed to do was keep just 5 nukes.  And none of it would have happened.  Putin respects nuclear weapons.  In fact, that's about the only thing he has ever respected.  I understand their anti-nuclear sentiment.  But they gave away the only weapon Putin fears and respects.

Second, the US made guarantees that they failed to keep.  That's very disappointing.  That's always disappointing.

Why am I not disappointed in Russia?  Because that would be like being disappointed in a shark or piranha for biting.  Its what they do.  No, a piranha does not disappoint when it bites.  Those who let it bite, bring their unprotected hand too close to it, they disappoint.

jdlech

We need to stop sending money to Ukraine.  I know two years ago it was another cool thing to have a blue and yellow theme on your Facebook profile right next to a picture of yourself in a mask by yourself in your car with an I got my covid vaccine banner.


Stop sending money to Ukraine.  You don't lose a wink of sleep over anything going on there, admit it.

DupedAgain2025

At first I thought, Ukraine was going to lose and that the war would be over soon

Now, I think Ukraine is going to lose but they might as well fight as hard as they can as this is an active genocide and so peace is completely worthless

ParticularArea8224

Then: "Damn, that's crazy, hopefully Ukraine will be able to keep itself safe"  
Now: "Holy shit I just saw a drone pov divebomb into a car loaded with soldiers while casually browsing the internet I hope Ukraine will be able to keep itself safe"

McLovett325

Angry in 2014 when Russia annexed Crime, Angry in 2022 when they invaded Ukraine and still Angry today.that USA and UK did not do more to support Ukraine when Russia broke the Budapest Memorandum.

I am very proud of Ukraine to have fought back the way they have. 

I worked with a lot of young Ukrainian software dev from 2013 to 2020 and visited Kyiv often, I was in the city during the revolution in Feb 2014 and there a few months later to see the aftermath. 

I was in Slovakia about 60k from the eastern boarder with Ukraine in March 2022 and saw the exodus of cars with Ukraine number plates and Cyrilic hand written a4 sheets of paper on the window, no idea what those notes said but observed most of the cars had done it.  I recall mainly high-end cars packed with families and luggage so I understand why they choose to leave.

I knew the people I worked with had conviction but it did not realise how strong that was until 2022.

I am disappointed in the Russian people who appear to support the war, I do appreciate that you get targetted if you show dissent so I am not angry with the people in general, just the ones you occasiinally see pop up who seem to generally believe Russia is in the right.   This makes me angry at the Americans who voted in Trump in what I have to believe was a true and fair election.   

Generally Angry all around.

nibor

At the start, I was fully drinking the Russia koolade and believing the propaganda of this being over in 3 days, second strongest army in the world, all that bullshit blyat.

Now, I’m so utterly disgusted by them both as a culture and as a people that regardless of how this war ends I will NEVER forgive anyone who attempts to do business with them or ever respect anyone who speaks fondly of them in any capacity outside of the ability to withstand suffering. They deserve nothing but total separation from the west, utter condemnation at every turn and no word they ever utter should ever, EVER be given the time of day for nothing they utter is even in the radiation burn range of the atomic bomb of truth. They are the true modern test of Christians to love your enemies and I think that I will fail that test for the foreseeable future. Fucking savages.

Princeofdolalmroth68

First of all I’ve lost faith in Russia and Russians wanting to coexist peacefully with the rest of the world.

Secondly, the UN and how it’s set up must change if it’s to serve its purpose. A proper UN military might must be made and the P5 countries should lose their veto rights. 

Any aggressor should be stripped of anything but observateur rights as soon as they utter financial, political or military treats to another country

Rich-Many1369

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AutoModerator

I suggest stop reading liberal takes on the conflict. I will say this about the American oligarchs: they don't care about anyone's sovereignty, yours and mine included. 

I would also say there's a difference between talking someone through politics in person or listening to how they interpret politics in person than reading something online, which I'm presuming because you said reading.

ChanceLaFranceism

This pretty much sums it up, yeah. It's a little reductionist regarding Russia's agency, as there are chauvinistic forces within Russian politics which motivates the desire to annex land from Ukraine. The analysis regarding the US' policy regarding Ukraine is essentially correct. Western countries don't care about Ukrainian freedom or sovereignty, which is why the US selected the members of government following 2014. At the end of the day, the US wants to test Russia's military capacity and capabilities, test their own new weapons systems against a near-peer military, and prevent European countries from becoming economically or politically aligned with Russia.

All of this being said, none of it makes Russia the good guy. Their fundamental motivations are ultra-nationalistic, and at the end of the day it's one oligarchy fighting another. They are fighting over the right to exploit Ukraine, and they are willing to fight to the last Ukrainian for that goal. It's about money and control of resources, not freedom or territorial sovereignty.

TheColdestFeet

Primary thing I'd add, mostly to avoid liberals using it as a gotcha, is the unofficial but very poorly hidden presence of the Russian military and military aid in Donbass from maybe as early as 2014, but at least from 2015 onwards.


From a perspective on the left, I'd also add that the more Russian-leaning government pre-2014 was just buddies with Russian oligarchs instead of western oligarchs. Russian interest in Ukraine is just as much serving the interests of their own oligarchs as it is protecting from NATO provocation. 

At the end of the day, it's the west using their puppet government in Ukraine to undermine a geopolitical rival while the people of both Russia and Ukraine pay the price in blood, and the working class in the west are told to tolerate cuts to essential welfare so the state can continue funding this bloodbath.

No war but class war, to hell with Zelensky, Trump, Putin, Biden, Stoltenberg, and the Bourgeois interests all of them serve.

RadicalRazel

I always explain my position on the conflict like this: "what if Russia Backed a Pro-Russia Coup in Mexico and hand picked the new government, then Mexican Nationalists started killing Americans on the border and finally Russia wanted to put military bases in Mexico? How would you feel about that?" I know its a super oversimplification of the conflict but the baby brained already have this war painted as Good Guy Freedom vs Bad Guy Communist Imperialism. If they don't understand or even try to understand then they're too lost in the sauce and its hopeless.

MansFate

I feel like not as many libs focus on the nordstream attack, because that is mostly what this war is about and that is mostly why the EU should be OUT of it for, that is, Russian gas. The fact that it was mainstream news that Ukrainians, with the help of the US secret services, blew it up and there is still a great silence on this, shows about everything you need to know on Europeans and americans perspective on this war: no respect for the truth, no respect for diplomacy, no respect for other nations that are deemed too "barbaric" compared to "us Westerners".

Heiselpint

A lot of people, also on this sub, are very prone to liberal ideas and even red scare propaganda repurposed to the Russian federation.


The simple fact is, no matter why the Russian federation went into Ukraine or what Its goals are, Its still an anti-imperialist struggle, the largest of the 21st century, it has put the most strain in western hegemony and this is all a fact.


If we were to read Stalin on, for example, the Egyptian struggle for indipendence, we would see that he still considered it as revolutionary struggle, despite being anti-communist and led by the bourgeoisie. 


But isnt Russia imperialist? No, it simply isnt economicaly strong enough to be imperialist, the only way it could practice imperialism is by direct military invasion and occupation which it has never done. Every single time is has militarily acted, it was a response to NATO, this being both Georgia and Ukraine. What the Russian federation is doing in Africa for example, is the exact same thing China does, becuase the Chinese strategy is simply supperior to western style imperialism even if you are as capitalist state. 


Even as a capitalist state Its not even close to being as bad as even EU vassals like the baltics. Its such a lesser evil Its not even in the same category.


Somebody who doesnt understand this can not be considered an actual principled anti-imperialist, but somebody who mainly cares about easthetics, hardly different from a liberal.

VAZ-2106_

One mistake is Europe wasn't encouraging Ukraine to join NATO. In a private meeting the French government flat out told Zelensky that NATO membership was simply impossible. Zelensky then kept jabbering about Ukraine joining NATO. He was sticking his finger in the eye of the Russian government.

When talk turned to putting US nukes on Ukrainian soil things got more tense. That was taken off the table so Zelensky announced that Ukraine was interested in making their own nuclear weapons. It was obvious they were going to spray paint little Ukrainian flags on US nukes. 

The US run Ukrainian government isn't sovereign. It never has been and it never will be. It is directly controlled from Washington and has no independence of action.

Dan_Morgan

The part about western Ukraine is a bit unfair I think. It reads like western Ukrainians are prone to Nazism. Most of them didn't collaborate with Nazis or anything, they fought against the Nazis too. Even under occupation they joined partisan units to fight collaborators as well as nazis. Many western Ukrainians were awarded medals for their service including the hero of the Soviet Union award. One famous Western Ukrainian soldier was Lyudmila Pavlichenko, who requires no introduction. 

This perhaps leaves a larger stain on the western Ukrainians today. They are dishonouring their grandparents by changing the name of streets, removing monuments and honouring Nazi collaborators instead.

alekhine-alexander

Quite simple: „ruSSiA bAaAd“

That‘s it.

No need for nuance, history and any critical reflection whatsoever.

CS20SIX

I suggest watching Badempanada's video on the conflict I think it highlights some interesting things.

Signal_Cockroach_878

Thankful to this sub because every other source about this whole conflict is reactionary.

AdJealous4951

That's more or less what happened. And someday it will be considered a historical truth that cannot be ignored.

Unfortunately the war is nowhere near over. If [RAND](https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR3000/RR3063/RAND_RR3063.pdf)'s ideas are guiding the conflict, overextending Russia requires more countries to be sacrificed to the cause, just as the Western bloc sacrificed Ukraine.

Paltamachine

I think this is mostly correct, but is downplaying the Russian influence on the Donbas republics. Both republics became essentially Russian puppet states soon after the rebellion, and they were receiving aid from Russia well before 2022. The demographics of the Donbas is heavily Russian, and being mistreated by the Ukrainian government made the rebellions easy targets for Russian influence. And of course in 2022 the republics were officially annexed by the Russian government.

KingButters27

More-Ad-4503

One more reason to not take libs seriously.

Icy_Pudding6493

DuskHatchet

I fully agree that the USA orchestrated this war, but that still doesn't justify Russia's actions, coups and undermining sovereignty are lesser crimes compared to outright invasion.

War is a crucible for many many horrors and inflicting it without due consideration or a just goal is a horrible thing to do. And prolonging it without an end in sight just lets the horrors mount up.

This war has only benefited the USA, Europe has solidly pivoted westward, America gets another forever war to distract citizens from domestic issues, Russia has lost almost all clout on the world stage and, their anti-imperialism pro-sovereignty stance rings hollow.

If Russia were smart they would do everything possible to stop the war immediately, return to the contested borders and request direct UN oversight in the contested regions with Russian minorities then retreat from those too.

If the status quo continues thousands of people will die for no good reason.

Alexander_Baidtach

One should never assume anything imperialists do is about the self determination of any people. 

Russia is an imperialist power attacking its neighbour. While I am personally against NATO without a doubt, Russia does not get to decide whether Ukraine joins NATO or not. That decision belongs to the Ukrainian people alone. At best, you can view what Russia is doing as similar to a failed version of the Soviet invasion of Czeckhoslovakia, but even that was pretty problematic ideologically since the USSR had no right to intervene in the construction of socialism there to impose its own interpretation of marxism-leninism but it could be justified as a necessity of the cold war.

On the other side of the Atlantic. The US could not care even slightly about the independance of the Ukrainian people or anyone else for that matter. The only reason the US supports Ukraine is to attack Russia. The US would have supported Ukraine even if it was Ukraine that invaded Russia. The US seeks to keep the world under its monolithic hegemony and has become more and more aggressive as it has come to realize that the world has been moving towards a multipolar order once more.

In conclusion, there are no "good guys" to be found here only suffering for all people involved to satisfy the endless hunger of imperialism.

Ok-Room-6271

"So how is any of this about Ukrainian freedom or self determination?"

Gee I sure wonder how the invasion of a country for the purpose of annexation is related to self determination and freedom. This analysis posits Russia as a purely reactive force an analysis that utterly fails given the conflicts origins in a Russian annexation of Ukrainian controlled land.

DmitriBogrov

In 2022 russia had taken 18% of ukraine. 3 years later they have taken 19%

throughthehills2

Russia's recent massive aerial assault on Ukraine highlights the ongoing aggression and the humanitarian crisis it creates.

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